Love Is in the Air

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COURTNEY WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: From KVMR and in partnership with FREED, this is Disability Rap.

JACKIE ARMSTRONG: I saw Eric and everyone around me dissolved. Everything around me just dissolved, and I knew, "This is something I haven't experienced before." I wanted to get to know as much about him as I could.

WILLIAMS: Today, we bring you our annual Valentine's Day special, exploring love, romance, relationships, and disability.

ERIC LOEFFLER: We opened up a lot about each other, and eventually we pretty much talked about what we wanted for partners, and we both pretty much agreed on everything for future of what we want in our lives. That definitely was a big help.

WILLIAMS: That's all coming up on Disability Rap. Stay tuned.

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WILLIAMS: Welcome to Disability Rap. I'm Courtney Williams. It's February, and we have a tradition here on Disability Rap of doing a show focused on love and relationships at this time of year. We're joined today by Jackie Armstrong and Eric Loeffler, who've been together since 2024. Jackie is the president of the disability self-advocacy group, Sacramento United People First, and is a board member of Alta California Regional Center. She works at the Sacramento Municipal Utility District and Progressive Employment Concepts.

Eric moved to California from Oregon in 2024 to be with Jackie. He works at Katadyn Foods in Rocklin, California. In his spare time, he enjoys video games, music and movies. Eric and Jackie also participate in a community choir together. Disability Rap's co-hosts Carl Sigmond and Alexa Guerrero spoke to Eric and Jackie last month on how to support their needs.

CARL SIGMOND, CO-HOST: Eric and Jackie, welcome to Disability Rap. It's great to have you both with us. We want to begin with your love story. How did you meet each other? Eric, you are up in Oregon, why don't you go first?

LOEFFLER: Yes. I met Jackie through a mutual friend. I drove over for her birthday, saw my friend, and we pretty much met for dinner at Rock & Brews. We sat across and basically we pretty much started conversation as we were talking about movies, which we both loved talking about. We started off with that. Then music was playing through, because it's a music theme bar. There was a lot of music, so we talked that. There was a song singing, and we both were just singing it aloud. By that point, we caught eyes and at that point I felt pretty much a vibe or something there.

I think afterwards, we dropped Jackie off, and then basically gave her a hug-- basically we changed Facebook accounts. I pretty much said, "Hey, if you're ever in Oregon or plan on driving, feel free to stop by," just because it seemed cool. Then she reached out to me through Facebook, said, "Hey, here's my number if you want to reach out." I basically took plug and did, and messaged her. We started texting each other for about a few weeks, two, three weeks. Then she did the first plunge and invited me to a comedy show over in Sacramento, which was Fluffy, which I joined in. Then I also invited her-- on the same week, there was a concert that we went in. Then we both went to that.

Probably after the concert for Chevelle when I dropped her off, basically at that point we decided, "This is real," and decide the long distance relationship.

SIGMOND: Thank you, Eric. Jackie, I see you smiling all throughout Eric's recount of events. What do you want to add?

ARMSTRONG: You know that movie, West Side Story, where they go on the dance floor and then everyone around them just dissolves? It was like that. I saw Eric and everyone around me dissolved. Everything around me just dissolved, and I knew, "This is something I haven't experienced before." I wanted to get to know as much about him as I could. Then I get a text from Alexa later on after the hug, "He doesn't hug anybody." I knew there was something there after that. I was nervous because with my transportation, is a little bit different than Eric's. I was afraid that if he invited me to come see him first, that I would then have to explain that, "Oh, I can't drive," and that would--

I took the first move because I wanted him to come see me. That way I could win him over with my dazzling personality. I just put myself out there, which, for an autistic person, is really, really-- there's a vulnerability there because you're adding to all this stuff and all this emotional baggage and all the experiences and everything. It was just like, "You're my person. Best birthday party ever." [laughs] Alexa saw it long before either Eric and I ever did. She always mentioned him to me. She always mentioned me to him.

We had seen each other once in passing, maybe about five, six years before. Neither of us were-- I thought you were completely out of my league. I think you said you were still going through some stuff yourself too. You definitely caught my eye and you definitely left a lasting impression. That second time I met you at the birthday party, it was just like, "Whoa. Okay." [chuckles]

ALEXA GUERRERO, CO-HOST: Hi, Eric. My next question is for you. What was the process of getting to know each other, including learning about each other's support needs?

LOEFFLER: We started off with-- our talk was through texts where we got to know each other. Mostly just asking simple questions, pretty much mostly about family, just living situation. At the time I was renting, of course, a house, but I was living with my older brother. Talking about that, just that and my type of work and my needs. Then I asked her more on her needs. Pretty much I knew she had kids, but more on that. Mostly we talked about her interests and just talks as we were texting when we started that whole process of just texting.

Then I think once she invited me out and then once we got to meet, we actually started-- once we talked and got to know-- once we fully knew, "This is a relationship. We're going really deep in." Once that was advised by the time I visited her, I made the first initiative that I will admit the advice of-- one best advice, I actually started at least text her like, "Good morning," and then saying pretty much, "Good morning, have a great day at work." Eventually, try to text her in mornings and then text her at least afternoons, evenings.

Then eventually after that, I suggested, because I am more of audio. That's the sector of, "Hey," during the evenings on our free times, if we can try to talk with each other through phone. Then we moved to doing phone calls and then Jackie suggested, "Hey, let's, through a Facebook Messenger, do video chat," which really helped with the long distance. Because I drive and I am good with driving long distances, I would come by and at least drive and visit Jackie about once a month, pretty much and least spend time over for about the weekends.

That helped basically get to know her more. Definitely, by talking, doing video chat, probably once we did the video chat, the first two or three weeks, we opened up a lot about each other. Eventually, we pretty much talked about what we wanted for partners. We both pretty much agreed on everything for future of what we want in our lives. That definitely was a big help.

GUERRERO: Jackie, do you want to add anything? How was it getting to know Eric and his support needs?

ARMSTRONG: My support needs are such that it's very on the surface. I utilize support staff a few times a week. They drive me and help me with doing random things, going to the pharmacy, maybe if I have an errand to run, things like that. I do not drive. My visual spatial reasoning is such that I cannot gauge the distance between cars and things like that. I knew off the bat that there was probably going to be a difference in support needs just because Eric was driving, I wasn't. Eric was working full-time, whereas I was working part-time.

Once I got to really know him and say-- The first time that I cooked for him, probably the biggest difference was because I cooked this really big complex meal and he wanted to cook for me. There's just water flying, spaghetti sauce flying. It gave me a sense for, in terms of in the kitchen, there was a difference, sure. Then in terms of anything where there's handiwork to be done, Eric's on it. If there's anything where we're going to the grocery store, definitely, or anywhere where we're both going to go socially, then Eric and I go together.

I have a car. I don't drive it. My support staff drive it or Eric drives it. Eric also has his own car as well. Sometimes we'll use my car, sometimes we'll use his car. I'd say, I was very upfront right off the bat that I utilized the support staff because I have been rejected before. There's something I like within the disability and autism community. [chuckles] I call it functioning elitism, where you're constantly telling yourself, "I'm not like those people. Those people are different than me. I'm not like them. Those people are the ones that really need staff and really are less than--"

I'd been rejected by some of the people who internalized the most functional elitism to pump themselves up, and so I knew I didn't want to beat around the bush. I was like, "If he's going to reject me, I might as well get it out of the way." I was right up front. I was like, "Look, I cannot drive. I probably will not be having children. I can do everything else in the world. I just do it a little differently."

We found ways for me to come up to Oregon. For example, I hitched a ride with Alexa the first time around. The second time around I bought a ticket and flew up to-- Eugene and Eric just met me at the airport and we had one of those romantic like dropping the bags and running through the airport and grabbing each other and the whole thing. It's true. I can do anything and everything, except drive a car and have kids. It's just I do it in a different way.

The other thing that has come up is the judging distance between cars. Again, I'm not the greatest in the parking lot, so Eric has this instinctive thing that he will grab my hand when we're in a parking lot and we just-- [chuckles] It's funny because we look like a random couple just holding hands in the parking lot, but really, it's like he is also gauging the cars for me at the same time that he is doing that. That's probably the other thing.

I'd say though, for the record, Eric, your cooking skills have improved immensely and have pretty much all but surpassed mine at this point. You can cook pretty much anything and everything since you moved in with me. [chuckles] The other thing is I talked to your mom and your mom let me know that, "Hey, the best way to engage with Eric is this way instead of this way." Eric has said that too.

If I say, "Hey, man, can you unload the laundry?" There's a pretty good chance that he's not going to hear all of it. If I shoot him a text like, "Hey, man, can you do the laundry or unload the laundry?" He's going to go do it in a split second. It's just the auditory processing, I think. That's the other piece, is, what is my processing like? What is your processing like? The other thing is communication. I say, "What's going on in your head?" Then he tells me, and then I'm like, "Oh, perfect. Got it."

GUERRERO: Thank you, Jackie. Do you want to expand on some of your disabilities?

ARMSTRONG: I was born with a rare metabolic genetic condition that causes extremely low carnitine levels and also episodic ketoacidosis. However, because I am on a very high dosage carnitine, it's mostly been dormant. When I was a really little kid, it was constant in and out of the hospital. Ear infections, cold, flu virus would put me in the hospital. If I got my tonsils out, I'd be in the hospital. I'd be hooked up to an IV, and I'd crash because the-- It's basically similar to a hypoglycemic episode.

The Children's Hospital metabolic clinic in San Diego tested me when I was about five or six to make sure that I didn't have brain damage. That's how they figured out that I had a very unique learning profile. I'm on the autism spectrum, number one, so all the sensory and the need for similar things and the need for routine, it's all there. Unlike Temple Grandin, who thinks in pictures, and people who describe thinking in video and pictures and all that, I have what is known as a nonverbal learning disorder. They're trying to change the term for that to a developmental, visual, spatial disorder, because a lot of people when they hear about it, get confused by it. "Oh, you talk all the time." No.

Let's see. Tim Walz's son has the same thing. Chris Rock has it as well. Basically, anything that's visual, spatial, so like telling directions to get from one place to another place, my ability to tell directions, understand directions, anything where there's a visual spatial aspect to it, I struggle with. I walk into things. I bump into things. It's almost as though I'm blind, but I see just fine. I was really bad at math. I struggled with science as well. I struggled a lot with formulas or any major equations, but I was fantastic in English. I was really, really good in English.

On top of that, I also have dyspraxia, which is basically a motor-- it's a motor learning disability, where basically, your brain tells you to move a certain way, and maybe your brain doesn't always send the right signal, so it takes longer to learn a new movement kind of a thing. My coordination isn't the greatest. My balance isn't the greatest. Then finally, [laughs] I like the joke that I have the, "Hey, could you tone it down," form of autism, because I'm very loud. I'm very theatrical. I'm very chatty. When people meet me, they just think I'm loud and quirky. Probably severe ADHD, but in actuality, I'm not hyperactive. I'm just not picking up the signals.

I'm just so happy to be here. I am an autistic extrovert in many, many ways. That's basically, what's going on with me is. I've got the medical stuff, the autism, nonverbal learning disability, and the dyspraxia. Those are all my stuff. Teachers either hated me or loved me. There was no in between.

GUERRERO: Thank you so much for sharing all that information, Jackie. What about you, Eric? What are your disabilities?

LOEFFLER: My disability is, I am in the autism spectrum. My story is though I did not learn about my autism until the end of my senior year in high school when my mom pretty much mentioned that probably that I had it. That she was talking with my grandmother at the time and pretty much thinking that probably on the spectrum. Then I read some books and some parts at the time-- it took me a while. Some parts it seemed okay. I'll say it took me a while to process and consider it.

I looked back and eventually, over time, I eventually accepted, especially once I got to college, and especially my-- which ones I basically accepted that. As far as anything surface, my other disabilities, of course, as Jackie mentioned, do have a short memory at times. I have great long memory of-- I can remember an event or history and tell you basically very details of something that happened to me about 10 years to give you story.

If you're to tell me at the moment of short things, as Jackie mentioned, "Oh, hey, can you do the laundry here, here," and some auditory, some moment I might just forget that second, or another example is at work they'll tell me, "Oh, hey--" At my work at the Katadyn Foods place, where else it's like, "Oh, hey, could you grab this order here and place it here?" It's like, "Okay." When they mention it then I would probably forget and I would have to ask to get more specific details, which they're very accommodating, luckily, about that. Those are the two.

Then little learning disability. Most during school, I did have resource class and did take some tutoring to get through school. Most of the part, I haven't had to use any real surfaces outside. I graduated through high school pretty much on my own. Then I got my AA through my community college. It's on my own. I did have to retake some classes, but I went in, did that.

As for the jobs, I did apply-- as far as disability surfaces, once I did get out of college, my mom went out to reach out when I was living in Sacramento. She did reach out, try to find some surfaces to help me find work at the time. Sacramento, she reached out to the MIND Institute and talked with Steve Ruder. Steve Ruder mentioned that, "If you are looking for a volunteer or something to do that, he should join this program," at the time called it Beyond Disabled, which was a community for disabled with youths program. I joined that for about a year. That is how I met Alexa over here. I did that.

Then I did go through DOR, and they did get me through job training. At that time, they put me through different spots. I think they started me off at-- they did get me on Pride doing office work at one of their centers for disabled. Just doing the peer stuff. Then they did give me computer classes and other stuff to help me towards-- I was hoping to land a government job, but that was a long list and didn't go. I went in and at the time, just applied and just looked for the work that I could, which was retail. After much applying, I finally did get a job over at Target.

Got started there for about a year, then went and applied, and then got into Total Wine & More as a salesperson. That went for a year. Then I moved back to Medford because I had an older brother living there. His company was hiring at a warehouse for pretty much assembly work. They had lines, and it was full-time. It was enough that I could live independently and move out of my parents'. I took that chance of move to Oregon to a full-time, which I lived in Ashland in a small cottage for about a year and a half.

Then my parents, they owned a house in the Oregon, Medford area. They needed somebody to rent that out, so I rented it to them for the next six years. Then once I got laid off to the-- the company was Ashland. [unintelligible 00:25:30] the assembly line. Once I got laid off there, I went through Express and went through a couple jobs. I was a janitorial for a month at the college there in Ashland. Then, after that, eventually, they got me to a warehouse in Central Point that I eventually started working there for about five years. I moved from just doing assembly to then doing the shipping and receiving, and help.

Actually, doing log orders as they basically trusted and noticed my skills of quality work. Noticed I was doing really good at catching stuff through the assembly or mistakes. They noticed I was good at that. They got me doing the pretty much computer work and doing a lot of the online processing of orders. Now I moved, of course-- then once me, Jackie, now currently I work at the Katadyn Foods Groups where I'm doing the sanitation. They've been moving me on. I've been their eight months, but they're getting me through different parts. For instance, I was help packaging my peers, and then they've been having me help out with other certain things in the company.

So far, I've been having a good time there. I've been so far working full-time. Now I'm full-time. Then recently, I just got my benefits for health. I just this week's got myself signed up for a dental appointment through a dentist here. All on my own, and got through my medical stuff pretty much and got that signed up on. That I feel accomplished with. I would say, for the most part, I haven't used the surface of a basically like a Social Security or basically that, or care workers. I would say I pretty much am able to live independently and am proud of that.

SIGMOND: Congratulations on getting the medical and dental. I know that can be a heavy lift. You both mentioned that you have autism. I'm just wondering in what ways does that help you understand each other? In what ways is that a challenge in your relationship, if at all? Eric, you can go first.

LOEFFLER: I would say it definitely helps us understand each other very well, especially when communicating or thoughts when explaining. Jackie pretty much understands right away, pretty much what-- Also, I do have little ticks and little things, and she pretty much understands when I'm doing that, what that's all about. There's that. Then I think also she can tell too. Like I said, I think we're both very much the autistic extroverts. We both can get really tired and very exhausted from a very long socialization.

I pretty much see from her. It's like, "Hey, are you ready to go out? Are you pretty much done from here?" She's like, "Yes." She could probably see that too for me if I'm tired or if I need a break to do whatever I need to do and relax. That's one of few things. Then I would say one great thing about autistic is we both very much are open on feelings and definitely overshare on stuff, which is good. I'll give it back to Jackie to answer any other stuff that I missed.

ARMSTRONG: Honestly, I don't know if I would have been able to date someone that has been able to say that they've been on the higher end of the social hierarchy where they had a gazillion friends, and they were the quarterback, and they were the this, and they were the that, and they were the most amazing this and that, and they never struggled. I feel that because we have a shared diagnosis, there's that unspoken understanding of how hard we both work to get to where we are now, to how we are when we met.

There's that unspoken, like, "I've been through it and I've worked so hard to get there," number one. Then number two, because of the fact that we're living together now, we're both in tune to each other's emotions a lot more because we're around each other more. I'm a little bit more all over the place emotionally. Eric's more like glass of water, easy going, he grounds me, 100%. I'd say there hasn't been that many challenges at all. If anything, the oversharing aspect makes it for we're really open and neither of us seem to really struggle with the alexithymia, which is where you're not sure what the heck you're feeling. If anything, it's, "I'm feeling this and I'm feeling it right now." [laughs]

If anything, it's made us both better communicators with each other and it's made us both feel this amazing joy and excitement for all things, you know, "This new movie's coming out. Ah," because a lot of our interest interests-- I would never have to worry about him looking at me and be like, "Yes. That's stupid. I don't get why you like zombies." No, he's usually hopping around being excited like I am. That makes it wonderful. Like New Year's, we dressed up and went to Stranger Things.

SIGMOND: Thank you both. I want to ask about another aspect of your lives together. Jackie, you mentioned that you have support staff come in a few days a week. Eric, you mentioned that you do not. Jackie, you alluded to this a little bit before, but what is that like navigating your support staff? Eric, what was the adjustment like for you? Eric, again, you can go first.

LOEFFLER: The great thing for me from working at Yale and then meeting Alexa and then starting to be part of the disability community and meeting people is that most of those people had staff. I got to meet a lot of the staff and understand what the assistants do, their aides and with Alexa, and then a few other people, their needs. When I met Jackie and she mentioned her aids and then what she needed, I was like, "Okay." Then I realized knowing I want to go and I pretty much knew from just hanging with Alexa for about years, I'm like, "Yes, I can pretty much live with that."

Of course, Jackie support needs are pretty much low as for most part, she gets staff maybe once or twice a week. That's good. I get along with her staff very well. I pretty much accepted that fact that once they're of course at the-- Usually when I do see them, I mostly go say hi. Of course I'll let Jackie do the thing of pretty much getting work and then I'll tend to focus and take time to do my stuff, whether it's going playing games or pretty much just-- I'll come by and ask if they need help with anything on certain, but for the most part, I--

So far, that aspect of the aids, I pretty much-- so far the assistants have been really good. I think pretty much anything that can help my partner with her needs, I am pretty much fine with having done.

SIGMOND: Jackie, what about you?

ARMSTRONG: When Eric moved in with me, my support staff schedule changed quite a bit because we're definitely like and enjoy our privacy. Finding that niche between privacy and getting my needs met, it was not hard once I got to it. One of the nice things about the fact that I'm not living alone anymore is when I do have support staff that maybe aren't working out, there's a second pair of eyes in the house, so there's less likely a chance that I will be going into an exploitation or an abusive situation, which is wonderful. Then number two, I think for all of us just work as a team.

There was one time where we were tackling a bunch of stuff in the kitchen, and so the three of us, the supports staff, Eric, and I all just tackled different areas of the kitchen to get it all clean and everything, and so it was we worked together. Eric's very agreeable and very easy to get along with. That's made it easy. I also have a lot of boundaries in terms of the supports staff that-- my home is not their workplace, they are guests at my home kind of a thing. It's taken me years to realize that. I had to come to that realization before Eric was ever a part of the picture. I think that also is a big piece of it.

It's been pretty easy actually. It's just been nice actually. I get my needs met. I think it makes me a better partner in a lot of ways because I'm not having to-- not necessarily rely on Eric, but it makes it so that I can be a partner and not someone that just has to like, "Hey, hun, could you do this?" Then again, that doesn't come up often.

GUERRERO: Thank you, Jackie. We have one more question and whoever wants to go first. What kind of advice would you tell other people with disabilities on how to support their needs?

ARMSTRONG: Want to go first, hun?

LOEFFLER: Yes, I'll go and start. I guess advice for the men out there, I think I mentioned this early, but I would say definitely show, like I said, if you find a girl you're interested, pretty much first thing is pretty much just to notice-- probably start with just text her, "Good morning, have a good day at school work," or basically your program. Then pretty much in the afternoon just communicate with her, ask her how she's doing, how was her day. That way you can at least communicate and then just show interest. Start with that and then just start to know each other. Take your time and don't feel to rush yourself.

Then, be sure to at least open up and feel free to express your feelings of what you want and then eventually move. Like I said, it's good to pretty much start with that and communication, definitely big. Like I said, definitely talk through, especially when you got a problem. It's good to discuss your feelings and then also other important part is listening. That's the other active is a listening to your partner and understanding her needs. Especially if she has a disability, understanding her disability, saying what she needs. That will help.

ARMSTRONG: I'd say my biggest piece of advice would be be yourself, be yourself, be yourself. Do not mask. Do not try to do a script. Be 100% authentic because when the mask drops, they're going to be like, "Who the heck is this person?" It's better just to be yourself up front. Be yourself and they're going to either love you or they're not going to want to date you. If they're not going to want to date you, then they're not the right person.

Be yourself, be open, listen, and try to make them smile at least once a day. If there's something funny you say or something sweet, something like that. Try to make them smile at least once a day. That's probably the other little piece of advice that I haven't told you that I do, Eric, but I try to make you smile at least once a day. [laughs]

WILLIAMS: That was Carl and Alexa's conversation with Jackie Armstrong and Eric Loeffler for our Valentine's Day special. 

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WILLIAMS: And that does it for the show. Disability Rap is produced and edited by Carl Sigmond and me, Courtney Williams. You can go to our website, disabilityrap.org to listen to past shows, read transcripts, and subscribe to the Disability Rap Podcast. You can also subscribe to our podcast by searching Disability Rap on any of the major podcast platforms.

We're brought to you by KVMR in partnership with FREED and we're distributed by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. For Carl Sigmond and Alexa Guerrero, I'm Courtney Williams with another edition of Disability Rap.